One bright Friday morning last month in Tel Aviv, I sat for coffee with an old friend on the lazy, colorful chairs on the artificial grass by the fountain at Dizzengoff Square.
I think the authro over states his case. Israelis dont see higher education as critcal stage of social and intelelctual development. much more important is where you where in the army. having been a pilot or in a sayeret certaily does matter. But having gone to Technion for engineering of HU for Law certainly helps. Also a columbia degree may not be worth much, becuase Israelis hvae ntoheard of it, but they have heard of Harvard and MIT.
Your point about the importance of army over education is well-received. Technion for engineering or Hebrew U for law too. I guess my sense is that although these special units or programs may carry prestige points, their core value proposition lies not there but in the experience/education provided. Meaning, they have prestige, but the prestige is justified, and ancillary, to the underlying fundamental reality of the good experience / education. In contrast, US culture seems to prioritize prestige for prestige's sake, not as a proxy of value. Does that make sense?
Israelis definitely do have prestige institutions: the units they served in, in the army. Some of these can't be disclosed, so they aren't mentioned. These postings tell you far more about a person and his or her skills than whether they attended a particular Ivy League university. They are not merely "a social fact." They are highly selective and they mold the people in them. Furthermore, given the size of the country, elite high schools and having grown up in elite neighborhoods certainly signal prestige and proximity to power.
Thanks for your comment. I agree. See my reply above to Moshe Shoshan. Of course, Israelis do partake in institutions that carry prestige points. But your point about these places -- certain army units or universities or elite high schools -- not being mere social facts, but rather real places that mold people, is the key. They are not empty shells with Fancy Names desired for the image of prestige, generally, but rather quality programs desired for their quality value provided. Of course there are exceptions; that's my sense.
I did not learn at Har Etzion, but I am surprised to see you grouping it with "prestige institutions." It certainly tries to mold its students. I would guess that Columbia is the same. I suppose a country or people that values pretense over reality would tend to value prestige over merit. This is reminiscent of the British aristocracy or the New England Blue Bloods or of having the Chief Rabbi perform your wedding. It is very much in contradiction to the notion of the American "self-made" person, though the New England Blue Bloods and New York aristocracy certainly were also much into prestige. Perhaps, there always is a mix.// Mark Twain wrote that in Philadelphia they ask after your lineage, in New York after your wealth, and in Boston after your education. I can now add, and "in Washington after your proximity to power." Thanks.
Excellent article. Really got me thinking of the differences in the two countries. One thing I would add about Israel is army service and the threat of war. I served in the IDF many, many years ago and it gave me the courage to have my own small business here in America. Not a lot of prestige, but I pay my bills. The one thing I learned in the army is that life is too short to waste on things that don't make a difference. Americans have no concept of that fact, whether Jewish or Gentile.
Steven, thanks for taking the time to share. Absolutely -- the always-being-threatened vs. safety paradigm is a key difference between Israeli and American reality. I'm sure that also factors into the Deep Identity vs. Thin Affiliation discrepancy. And sounds like you've really built a great small business, mazal tov!
great article
thank you!
Loved this
Thank you!
I think the authro over states his case. Israelis dont see higher education as critcal stage of social and intelelctual development. much more important is where you where in the army. having been a pilot or in a sayeret certaily does matter. But having gone to Technion for engineering of HU for Law certainly helps. Also a columbia degree may not be worth much, becuase Israelis hvae ntoheard of it, but they have heard of Harvard and MIT.
Your point about the importance of army over education is well-received. Technion for engineering or Hebrew U for law too. I guess my sense is that although these special units or programs may carry prestige points, their core value proposition lies not there but in the experience/education provided. Meaning, they have prestige, but the prestige is justified, and ancillary, to the underlying fundamental reality of the good experience / education. In contrast, US culture seems to prioritize prestige for prestige's sake, not as a proxy of value. Does that make sense?
Makes sense, but is not in line with my experience
would be happy to discuss further offline
Israelis definitely do have prestige institutions: the units they served in, in the army. Some of these can't be disclosed, so they aren't mentioned. These postings tell you far more about a person and his or her skills than whether they attended a particular Ivy League university. They are not merely "a social fact." They are highly selective and they mold the people in them. Furthermore, given the size of the country, elite high schools and having grown up in elite neighborhoods certainly signal prestige and proximity to power.
Thanks for your comment. I agree. See my reply above to Moshe Shoshan. Of course, Israelis do partake in institutions that carry prestige points. But your point about these places -- certain army units or universities or elite high schools -- not being mere social facts, but rather real places that mold people, is the key. They are not empty shells with Fancy Names desired for the image of prestige, generally, but rather quality programs desired for their quality value provided. Of course there are exceptions; that's my sense.
I did not learn at Har Etzion, but I am surprised to see you grouping it with "prestige institutions." It certainly tries to mold its students. I would guess that Columbia is the same. I suppose a country or people that values pretense over reality would tend to value prestige over merit. This is reminiscent of the British aristocracy or the New England Blue Bloods or of having the Chief Rabbi perform your wedding. It is very much in contradiction to the notion of the American "self-made" person, though the New England Blue Bloods and New York aristocracy certainly were also much into prestige. Perhaps, there always is a mix.// Mark Twain wrote that in Philadelphia they ask after your lineage, in New York after your wealth, and in Boston after your education. I can now add, and "in Washington after your proximity to power." Thanks.
I did not know that Mark Twain wrote that! Do you know where?
Excellent article. Really got me thinking of the differences in the two countries. One thing I would add about Israel is army service and the threat of war. I served in the IDF many, many years ago and it gave me the courage to have my own small business here in America. Not a lot of prestige, but I pay my bills. The one thing I learned in the army is that life is too short to waste on things that don't make a difference. Americans have no concept of that fact, whether Jewish or Gentile.
Steven, thanks for taking the time to share. Absolutely -- the always-being-threatened vs. safety paradigm is a key difference between Israeli and American reality. I'm sure that also factors into the Deep Identity vs. Thin Affiliation discrepancy. And sounds like you've really built a great small business, mazal tov!
This is the best analysis of the American Jewish personality, made clear by the difference from the Israeli personality, that I have ever read.
Thanks for taking the time to write - means so much!
Really well done and insightful! Israel is a unique place with unique people. Everywhere you turn someone will invite you to dinner.
Thank you Susan for your glowing feedback 😊🙏
Shana Tova..Awesome essay ..thank you for delving and finding heart at the essence of it all
Thanks Eli, means a lot!! Shana tova🙏
Not surprisingly, someone shared this quote with me in Boston:-) No idea where, he wrote it.